デニス・チェンバース - In The Pocket

Dennis Chambersのインタビュー「Dennis Chambers - In The Pocket」を翻訳しました。




Denis, I want to talk to you about some of the different musical styles that have influenced you. What about the music of James Brown? I started listening to James Brown, you know, at a very young age. I think I was like five, five or six years old when I first started noticing James Brown. You know, I started to emulate a lot of James Brown records just to learn how to play grooves or just learn how to play music, period.

Denis, 私はあなたと異なる音楽スタイルについて話したいと思います。James Brownの音楽についてどうですか?私はJames Brownの音楽を非常に若い頃から聴き始めました。私は5歳か6歳の頃だったと思います。James Brownに気づき始めました。私はJames Brownのレコードを真似して、グルーヴを学んだり、音楽を演奏する方法を学ぶために真似し始めました。

And there were a few drummers that I knew or I've learned to know, you know, just by the styles of playing, which is Clyde Stubblefield and Melvin Parker. And I mean, Clyde I mean, stuck out like a sore thumb to me, so I mean, he I found him the most interesting player of all the players. You know, what about some of the Memphis drummers, such as Al Jackson? Al Jackson, you know, what I mean? I love his stuff, you know, when he played with Otis Redding and the Booker T's and MGS. You know, all the stuff that came over the radio back in that mm-hmm. That influenced your pocket dance lane? Yeah, yeah. And you know, of course, I got away from pocket playing at a very young age, you know, because of, you know, I mean, I learned how to play music by emulating those records, you know, the pocket stuff. But I learned how to, I started getting into jazz at a very young age, mm-hmm.

そして、いくつかのドラマーは、彼らの演奏スタイルから知っていた、あるいは知るようになったドラマーがいました。それはClyde StubblefieldとMelvin Parkerで、Clydeは私にとって突出して興味深いプレイヤーで、彼が一番興味深いプレイヤーでした。メンフィスのドラマーの中で、Al Jacksonのような人はどうですか? Al Jackson、あなたは知っていますよね? 彼の演奏が好きで、Otis ReddingやBooker T's and MGSと一緒に演奏したときの彼の演奏は素晴らしいです。その時代にラジオで流れていたすべての音楽が私のポケットプレイに影響を与えました。はい、そうですね。もちろん、私は非常に若い頃にポケットプレイから離れました。なぜなら、あなた知っていますよね、私はそのレコードを真似て音楽を演奏する方法を学びました。しかし、私は非常に若い頃からジャズに興味を持ち始めました

I think the first thing I remember emulating was Dave Brubeck's "Take Five." She was real mellow and then it just went on from there right into, you know, Art Blakey and, you know, Philly Joe. You know, try to emulate it, you know, because I never went to school for music, you know, a self-taught musician, mm-hmm. You know, so I got it, you know, I had to get it the best way I can, and the best way I knew how to do it was just emulating those records 'cause I just didn't know any better and at the time.

私が最初に真似したのは、Dave Brubeckの「Take Five」でした。彼女は非常に穏やかで、そこからさらに進み、Art BlakeyやPhilly Joeに進みました。真似してみました、なぜなら私は音楽のために学校に行ったことがなく、独学のミュージシャンだったからです。私はできるだけのことをして、最善の方法でそれを手に入れなければなりませんでした。そして、その最善の方法は当時はそれしか知らなかったから、これらのレコードを真似することでした。

And at the same time, you're gigging. I mean, in Modern Drummer, there's a reference that you started working in clubs at the age of six. At the age of six, yeah. I think I was more of a novelty act, you know. I mean, I was this little guy they called Little Dennis, who used to bring me in these clubs and set me up on telephone books. They used to lower the seat. No, no, they yeah, they put a little chair out and they put little telephone books in it, and I was hid behind the drums and play. Couldn't reach the, I could reach the pedal, but I couldn't reach, I couldn't play the hi-hat at the time, so I was really good at doing that. And then when the cops come in, they were like, yank me off real fast. The reason why I could get away with playing in clubs was because of my mother. My mother was a singer, a background singer for Motown. So she was sort of like a celebrity, and that was my sort of okay to go in these clubs to play. I was like Little Audrey's son.

そして同時に、あなたはギグをこなしていましたね。Modern Drummerによれば、あなたは6歳でクラブで働き始めたとのことですね。6歳で、そうですね。私はある意味で目新しい存在だったんです。私はこのリトル・デニスと呼ばれる小さな男の子で、クラブに連れて行かれ、電話帳に座らせられていました。いいえ、いいえ、そうです、小さな椅子に電話帳を置いて、私はドラムの後ろに隠れて演奏していました。ペダルには届くんですが、当時はハイハットが叩けなかったんです。それが得意でした。そして警官が入ってくると、彼らは私をすばやく引きずり出していました。クラブで演奏できた理由は、私の母のおかげでした。私の母はMotownのバックグラウンドシンガーでした。だから、彼女は何かと有名人のような存在で、それがこれらのクラブに入って演奏するための許可だったんです。私はまるでリトル・オードリーの息子みたいなものでした。

So after James Brown and the soul drumming, who would you say next? Zig and the Meters. Yes, Zig and the Meters, you know. I don't know which was first, actually. What had to be James Brown first, and then came the Meters. I remember now when I first heard "Strut," that just floored me, you know. You know, here this guy comes in and you know, plays like, you know, just real slick, you know, like hi-hat thing, you know, he did, which was really unheard of back then. It was before pretty parity played his high thing on "Rocksteady," you know. I mean, to open a closed hi-hat thing right and with the backbeat being the way it was, I just fell in love with that. Harvey Mason, when he was with the Headhunters, mm-hmm. Just floored me. I mean, those records, you know, "Chameleon," it was just amazing. Stuff he played on that stuff and yeah, just great, great playing.

その後のジェームズ・ブラウンとソウルのドラミングの影響の次に、次は誰だと言いますか?ジグとザ・ミーターズです。そう、ジグとザ・ミーターズですね。実際にはどちらが先だったのかはわかりません。おそらく最初にジェームズ・ブラウンがあり、それからミーターズが続いたのでしょう。私は今覚えています、「Strut」を初めて聴いたとき、それに圧倒されました。彼が登場して、ハイハットの演奏を本当に巧みにやってのけたんですよ。それは当時本当に聞かれなかったことでした。それはPretty Parityが「Rocksteady」で彼のハイな演奏をする前のことでした。クローズドハイハットを開いて、バックビートがそのようになっている中で、私はそれに夢中になりました。ヘッドハンターズの一員としていたハービー・メイソンも、本当に圧倒されました。彼が演奏した「Chameleon」などのレコードは、本当に素晴らしい演奏でした。

So these were kinds of milestones in the evolution of funk drumming, yes. When I saw Billy Cobham play, you know, from that moment on, I wanted to play fusion mm-hmm, you know, I mean, here's a guy who played a right-handed set up and played a left-hand ride cymbal. He had his ride on the left-hand side. When I saw that, there was just something new for me, you know, and I've seen anybody up until that moment or until that time. I never saw anybody do that right, so a new challenge was a new challenge, you know. So I, you know, I jumped on it right away, you know, so everything I learned how to do it my right, I had to go back and learn how to do with my left, uh-huh. But then later, you know, I learned that people look at that like it's showing off, so to speak, so I just dropped doing a lot of things with my left side or try to play everything out do my right, try to play it on my left, I just stuck to my right.


And I think what happened was, you know, later when I joined P-Funk, when the percussionist left the band, I took all his gear, you know, and put it over to my left side of the drum kit, uh-huh, you know, that and it was all stick percussion. There were just two Timbalis, a whole bunch of cowbells and like a few cymbals, various cymbals, and other little things like a hit on at the time, mm-hmm. So it came back, you know, started playing a lot of stuff or leading with my left, you know, because I had to play percussion with my left hand and play the drums drumming right, uh-huh, which was easy to do actually because I mean for the drum part because George wanted all George wanted was a solid bass drum playing for, you know, playing solid fours and you just crash on the one with every other one with the cymbal crashing, but you've also got 20 musicians on stage to worry about horn hits, yeah, Parliament-Funkadelic or Funkadelic music and a heavy influence on my funk plan, mm-hmm.


I think that's actually when I learned how to play with a rhythm section, mm-hmm, you know, I mean, 'cause up until that time, you know, like with the fusion music, you know, I mean, it's about playing with each other there, but you really, I mean, you know, you and you know, you're playing a lot and you're not really listening, I mean, you're listening, but you're really not listening to what's going on around right, at least one, you know, some of the musicians I grew up playing with played fusion music at that time, that's what that was about.


But I, when I joined P-Funk or Parliament-Funkadelic, you know, it's 20 guys in it and it had to sound like 20 people on the bandstand, hmm. So how old were you when you joined the band? 18, 18 and 19 years old. I think I was like 18 years old and that was your first major touring act. Yeah, it's funny, you know, here I am, you know, just out of high school playing in jazz clubs, you know, playing a lot of jazz music and a lot of fusion music, next thing I know I get a call to or I get a plane ticket to come down to Atlanta Georgia, you know, to start rehearsing with the band. So, and you know, the next night after that I'm at Madison Square Gardens, you know, it was pretty well. I remember, like, you know, the lights will go up, I look out and there's all these people, I've never seen that many people in my life, you know, and I look down, I have all these goosebumps and you couldn't hear, you know, because the people were like cheering, you couldn't hear when you count off, yes, I will count off and everybody, the band is like, what, you know, what's going on, aside to like yell, you know, like real loud to kind of off the tunes, you know.


Playing with P-Funk was a great experience for me. How long did it take before you really felt comfortable in that band? Two months, mm-hmm. It, I felt comfortable in, you know, like being with the band, but I never felt comfortable playing the music until like actually like three years, mm-hmm, about three years after I joined the band, you know, all the way up until that time I mean I'd spent a long time playing a lot of jazz fusion music, you know, and I mean, you know, I funk, so to speak, but you know, P-Funk or Parliament-Funkadelic, it's a whole different type of fun thing, you know.


All your life you listen to a band that you, you know, you really idolize for, you know, like in your early earlier years and all of a sudden here you are playing with. I never dreamed that I would be playing with those guys, so this period of nine years had a heavy influence on what you've done since then in terms of the groove and the foundation and the pocket. Can you talk a little bit about how that developed and some of the George Clinton ideas, yeah.


Well, one thing I had to learn was how to play in the pocket, and I didn't know what that meant because no one explained that to me, especially in that organization until later. You know, I finally broke down. I was like, man, what are you guys talking about? You know, like, what is a pocket, you know? And what it meant was, okay, well, you, the time is here, 1, 2, 3, 4. You can either play right on those beats, which George didn't want. He wanted to lay back a little bit, you know, like behind it a little bit, mm-hm. And that's what he meant, you know, with, you know, putting it in the pocket, but you can still feel the time being where it is. It was just, you know, you still had this heavy or just a little sluggish feeling, uh-huh, type of thing.


What was the hi-hat I had stayed Owen's data on the snare drum, yeah? I mean, sort of like what Gant does with his left hand, you know, when he plays snare drums. It's like some of the stuff he did with Steely Dan, you know, some of those examples were like this, you know. The snare drum was like behind the beats or, you know, a little bit laid back, and that's pocket playing. That's what George called pocket playing. So that would carry on into the record dates you're doing today, whether it's sequence music or not at all, still applies. It still applies, but I don't have it. I don't get a chance to do those types of things anymore because, you know, usually, you know, guys want you to, you know, I work with a lot of guys who worked with these sequences, and they wanted to be exactly right on the beat, you know. And, you know, as soon as you try to lay it back a little bit, you know, they think, you know, like the time is like a little weird, right? And all you're trying to do is just, you know, like trying to create a comfortable vibe on the track, you know, human feeling, yeah.


But the only time I really get a chance to exercise those types of things is when I'm playing live with the rhythm section. The parts that you and Gary came up with for "Blue Matter," I mean, they're very unique, very locked in together. There's a lot of patterns that are phrased together between the bass and the drums. How did that all come about? Well, as far as I remember, it was, you know, John brought in this tune, you know, just had like a, you know, the chords, chord changes, and the accents, mm-hmm. We started playing a groove, you know, which wasn't the groove that was on the record at the time, but it was like another thing, right? And then all of a sudden, I started playing, you know, like the triplet thing, you know, which is what I learned from listening to Tiki Fulwood, you know. Gary played the, you know, he had a bass line, you know, like he changed his bass line to fit what I was doing, mm-hmm.

でも、実際にそのようなことを試す機会があるのは、リズムセクションとライブで演奏している時だけです。"Blue Matter"のためにあなたとゲイリーが考えたパート、それは非常にユニークで、ベースとドラムの間で非常に組み合わさっていますね。ベースとドラムの間で一緒にフレーズされた多くのパターンがあります。それはどのようにして生まれたのでしょうか? 覚えている範囲では、ジョンがこの曲を持ち込んで、コードやコードの変更、そしてアクセントのようなものがあったんです。私たちはグルーヴを演奏し始めました。それは当時レコードになかったグルーヴでしたが、別のものでしたね。そして突然、私はトリプレットのようなものを演奏し始めました。それはTiki Fulwoodを聴いて学んだものでした。ゲイリーはベースラインを演奏し、私がやっていることに合わせてベースラインを変更しました。

And then it came about, you know, like he listened to me, me listening to him, you know. There were a few things I had to change to fit his thing, all right. So, and that's how it, you know, just, huh, that's how it evolved. And John just let it happen. He just let it happen. That's the great thing about John, you know. When you play with his band, he doesn't really tell you what to do, you know. He just brings in some music. I mean, if he doesn't like what you do, you know, he'll say, "Okay, well, you know, I don't like this, you know. Why don't you try this?" But that was just very seldom he would do that, you know, mm-hmm.


You know, I just remember, you know, like he just always brought in these tunes, and he was like, "Well, here's the tune, right? Here's the accent. You learn the accents, and the rest, you know, you guys got it." He just trusted us to do those types of things. Haven't been that way since, I can't remember, it had ever been that way since, mmm. You know, where were you, you know, where if you're in a band, and the band will just let you do what you do. You trust, trust you to do what you do, mm-hmm. It's just like somebody saying, you know, "Here's a sketch of a painting, you know, put some color to it."


A lot of people think, you know, when you hear those triplets on the bass drum, they immediately think that I got that from John Bonham, you know. It's because probably that's where they first heard it from, but for me, I, the first cat I ever heard do that was Tiki Fulwood, you know, with Funkadelic. And the second time I heard it was with John Bonham, and John Bonham made it famous, so to speak, because everybody was into, you know, rock music, you know, that kind of thing. Another time I heard that triplet configuration was done by a guy named Diamond, and he was the drummer who played with the Ohio Players, mm-hmm. He demonstrated some things like this. Of course, the tempo was a little faster, where the tune was a little faster than that, but right, he made a landmark with that, you know, and then I came along and did it.


We talked about drummers who influenced you throughout the '60s and the '70s. I'm interested, when was the first time you heard of Vinnie Colaiuta? I heard Vinnie when I was with P-Funk, and the first thing I remember hearing was the Joe's Garage record. And when I heard that, I was totally blown away by his playing. I mean, today I have various different influences, I mean, from a serious range, you know, from the jazz, from the fusion, from the funk, from the, you know, pocket. I just have a big variety of different influences. Marvin "Minnie" Smith is one of my favorite drummers today, you know. Bobby's, be Bob Plant is amazing, I mean, so in his other things that he does, you know, like the groove stuff is pretty amazing, mm-hmm. Jeff "Watts" is another one of my favorites. Tommy Campbell's one of my favorites. You know, what was one of my favorite cats is one of my favorite cats. Billy is still one of my favorites. Tony's my favorites.

Vinnie Colaiutaは、私がP-Funkと一緒にいたときに初めて知りました。最初に覚えているのはJoe's Garageレコードでの演奏で、それを聴いて完全に感動しました。現在、私の影響はジャズ、フュージョン、ファンク、そしてポケットプレイなど、さまざまなジャンルに及びます。現代のドラマーの中で、Marvin "Minnie" Smithは私のお気に入りの一人です。Bob Plantの多才さとグルーヴは特に驚くべきもので、彼の異なる音楽的活動に感銘を受けています。Jeff "Watts"やTommy Campbellも私の好きなドラマーの中に含まれています。さらに、広く知られていないかもしれないが私にとって重要なドラマーには、現在Level 42で活動しているGary HusbandとMark Mondesirがいます。これらの影響と、Billy CobhamやTony Williamsなどのドラミングの伝説の永遠の魅力が、私の音楽的な視点を形成するのに寄与しています。

And there's one drummer I'd like to mention that not too many people, as two drummers I'd like to mention. I don't think people know anything about him. One drummer is this guy named Gary Husband who plays with Level 42 right now, but he used to play with Allan Holdsworth. He kind of reminds me of when he plays with Holsworth; he kind of reminds me of Tony. Another drummer is a guy named Mark Mondesir, and both of these drummers are from Britain. Mark Mondesir is a phenomenal bebop player. There's Will Kennedy also who plays with the Yellowjackets. I love the way he blends in. I mean, it's a whole bunch of guys, you know, a whole bunch of guys around New York.

そして、言及したいドラマーがいます。あまり多くの人が知らないかもしれないが、私が言及したい2人のドラマーがいます。彼の名前はGary Husbandで、現在はLevel 42で活動していますが、以前はAllan Holdsworthと一緒に演奏していました。彼がHolsworthと一緒に演奏すると、トニーを思い起こさせます。もう一人のドラマーはMark Mondesirで、この2人のドラマーはともにイギリス出身です。Mark Mondesirは驚異的なビーバップ・プレイヤーです。Yellowjacketsで演奏しているWill Kennedyもいます。彼の絶妙なプレースタイルが気に入っています。ニューヨーク周辺には他にもたくさんの才能あるドラマーがいますね。

Alright, I think every time you're in town, you're at a different club every night, yeah? I'd make it a point, you know, make it a point to just go and just check out people. Another guy I always fail to mention is Lennie White. Just the way he tunes his drums and his approach to plan the drums is, it's, you know, I'm just really knocked out of, you know, by his plan. And Jackie's your net, you know, those are my favorite players, including the old guys, you know, with Jackson Elvin and Philly Joe Papa Joe and Big Sid Catlett. Louie Bellson, mm-hmm, who I had a chance to play with, you know, still have attention myself on that. Can't believe actually, you know, shared the same stage with him. That's one of the things I'm impressed about is you seem very open-minded about taking in everything.

わかりました。君が街にいるたびに、毎晩違うクラブにいるみたいだね。そうだね、僕はポイントを付けて、人々を見に行くようにしているんだ。もう一人、いつも言及し損ねている人がいるんだ。それはLennie Whiteだ。彼がドラムを調整する方法と、ドラムを演奏するアプローチが、驚くべきものだ。それに、Jackie's your netも。これらは僕のお気に入りのプレイヤーで、もちろん昔ながらの面々も含まれているよ。Jackson ElvinやPhilly Joe Papa Joe、Big Sid Catlett。そして、Louie Bellsonもそうだ。彼と一緒に演奏する機会があって、今でもそれが自分にとっての注目の一つだよ。君がすべてを受け入れる姿勢を見て、本当に感心しているんだ。

You mentioned one day Joey Baron, you know, that's a whole different side of jazz. He's another one of my favorites. When I go see somebody like him, you know, I kind of wish that I had never played drums, you know, because this guy has such a beautiful approach to plan. And I wish that everybody just thought about or had the same approach as this guy, you know, when plays, you know, such as you know when Lanie plays and Joey and all those other guys, you know. It makes me go home and what I like just, you know, I think about well maybe I'll go into another field, another area, take another career. And it's, it's weird, you know, because some of those guys share or they express those feelings for me, and I'm like, man, get out of here, you know, you by you.



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